Comments on studio journal: the black-and-white morality of "Cult of Color"

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Salvador Castillo's review - part one & part two

2008-04-17T23:42:00.000-05:00

Salvador Castillo's review - part one & part two

Eric: no ill will on my side either.

2008-04-14T18:20:00.000-05:00

Eric: no ill will on my side either.

I understand how analogy works, though you did use...

2008-04-14T16:19:00.000-05:00

I understand how analogy works, though you did use the word equivalent in your comment, but maybe i am mis-reading…its a moot point anyways, onward…

You are correct, each has their own interpretive framework. But this framework is derived from their particular context. I don't agree with using analogies when two things are so different in context. Sambo is a 19th C. children's book, Cult of Color a 21st C. piece of contemporary art. Context always has to be considered for me, as it is as much a part of the 'thing' as its material properties, this is especially true when you are arguing for or against the merits of any type of artistic endeavor. Context influences and illuminates intention, against which we must always always measure up. Taken in its context as i understand it, Cult of Color asks all of those moral, social, and even political questions. Or rather, it gives me the room to ask them myself. I just don't see the overly tidy moral lesson that you do.

It is obvious we just don't see things in the same way, and that i am no good at arguing. (No lawyers or philosophers in the family) But i want to be perfectly clear that there is no ill-will, bad blood, anger, venom, whatever you want to call it, in my responses, posts, or otherwise. I have only the best intentions in mind. This is good stuff that is tremendously beneficial to me as-well.

another Eric Zimmerman post about this

2008-04-14T10:25:00.000-05:00

another Eric Zimmerman post about this

Eric: What I wrote in no way suggests the "equival...

2008-04-14T10:04:00.000-05:00

Eric: What I wrote in no way suggests the "equivalency" of Sambo and Cult of Color; it is an analogy: Cult of Color is to moral dualism as Sambo is to racism. The meaning of any analogy of the form 'A is to B as C is to D' is to identify the relationship between A and B with the relationship between C and D. It does not mean that A is equivalent to C, nor that B is equivalent to D. 'Hand is to plam as foot is to sole' does not imply the equivalency of hand and foot; neither does my analogy imply the equivalency of Sambo and Cult of Color.
This argument also does not require reference to the works' contexts; it simply says that each is a cultural product embodying a certain interpretive framework - Cult of Color embodies moral dualism in the same way that Sambo embodies racism. The point is that neither work can meaningfully be said to question the interpretive framework that it embodies. To imply that this basic argument-by-analogy suggests the equivalency of Cult of Color to Sambo is to create a strawman.

Whoa, I think Sambo and the Cult of Color are two ...

2008-04-13T19:35:00.000-05:00

Whoa, I think Sambo and the Cult of Color are two entirely different things, with two very different contexts that would have to be considered before making any sort of argument regarding their equivalancy. I am not going there. I don't have any idea of Hancock's strategy, regardless of how much i may or may not know about the larger 'mythology/narrative', this is just how i see and interpret the performance in relation to his work.

Ivan Lozano's review on glasstireThanks for readin...

2008-04-12T12:54:00.000-05:00

Ivan Lozano's review on glasstire
Thanks for reading, Ivan.

Ali Fitzgerald's note on the ballet

2008-04-11T13:35:00.000-05:00

Ali Fitzgerald's note on the ballet

Arthouse has now launched the Cult of Color exhibi...

2008-04-10T12:44:00.000-05:00

Arthouse has now launched the Cult of Color exhibition interactive site.

Eric: I think giving Cult of Color credit for ques...

2008-04-10T12:42:00.000-05:00

Eric: I think giving Cult of Color credit for questioning moral dualism is equivalent to giving Little Black Sambo credit for questioning racial stereotypes, but you seem to be more familiar with Hancock's work as a whole, and if you think his adoption of the dualistic stance is self-conscious then I will defer to your judgment. If that's true, it certainly doesn't come through in the ballet. And I promise, I'm done with this now; thanks again.

I think it questions it by adopting it, using it, ...

2008-04-08T22:33:00.000-05:00

I think it questions it by adopting it, using it, and making us aware of its presence within the relatively harmless confines of the stage. If the fantasy mirrors aspects of our own lives then we have an entry point, a way to frame the narrative that allows it to pose questions. But if its a completely invented and fantastical world i think that its impact and relevance is severely lessened, and it just becomes a form of escapism.

Discussions are good to have.

Eric: I don't see how the narrative questions a du...

2008-04-08T17:45:00.000-05:00

Eric: I don't see how the narrative questions a dualistic moral scheme; it seems to embody dualistic morality unquestioningly, which for me is the whole problem. The trope of a spiritual being bringing color to a black-and-white world implies a questioning of dualism which the narrative fails to deliver as far as I can see.
My point about the Muslims, etc. was not that the text is somehow anti-Muslim, only that the dualistic morality embodied by the ballet's text is of the same form and structure as the ideologies underlying violent conquest throughout history - 'We are good because we are members of group X, and they are bad because they are not members of our group; we will make them good by making them join our group.' The military conquest of the Muslim world by the U.S. government, with the aim of establishing secular 'democratic' client-states, is only the most timely example. The invasion of Tibet by China in 1959, the destruction of indigenous North American societies by European colonists, the Crusades - all these violent conquests of one people by another were made possible by the conquerors' belief that, by definition, members of their group were "good" and non-members were "bad" until they were assimilated into the group. My point is that these destructive events could not have occurred without a dualistic moral worldview functionally identical to that assumed unquestioningly by the Cult of Color narrative.
By the way, thank you for taking the time to have this discussion. Critical dialogues like this are really valuable to me and to the community, so I feel grateful to you for participating.

Good point regarding the text. I intentionally tri...

2008-04-08T15:56:00.000-05:00

Good point regarding the text. I intentionally tried to forget about it as for me the narrative can never be simplified down to a few concise sentences, whether they are supplied by the 'artist' or not. I agree with you in terms of evaluating the ballet as such, but i am not sure if it is possible for me to do that. I can't turn off the knowledge i have of the whole narrative, so maybe it is that which is clouding my thoughts not the bacon. The text's rationalization of the narrative is the problem then, as it is too literal a description of a thing that relies so heavily upon imagination, interpretation, and flexibility.

I also agree that categorizing people as 'good' or 'evil' is dangerous. But i can't go along with substituting 'Muslim' for 'vegan' etc. as that is certainly not in the presented text But this is the power of the narrative – you can have your interpretation and i can have mine. Neither is right or wrong, good or evil, but instead have to exist side by side. This is were the complexities and ambiguity are most evident for me, and where the narrative questions this duality as a larger system of knowledge and understanding. It may not take a stand on one side or the other but it certainly raises the questions.

Eric: I don't think I'm 'reading specificity into'...

2008-04-08T14:43:00.000-05:00

Eric: I don't think I'm 'reading specificity into' the narrative; my entire argument is based closely on direct quotations from the text that was handed out to the audience at the ballet. I don't see how a statement like "Vegans have lost their humanity and are evil self-righteous creatures who push their morality on others" can be construed as "ambiguous."
This story might be intended to be humorous in a way, but it is clearly not intended to poke fun at the type of dualistic moral scheme at its core; it takes absolutist dualistic morality as a given.
To see why this might not be so funny, reread the accompanying text, substituting "Muslims" for "Vegans," and "U.S.-friendly 'democratic' government" for "meat" - The Muslims (Vegans) are 'evil self-righteous creatures who push their morality on others,' until the U.S. government (Painter) teaches them to accept a U.S.-friendly 'democratic' government (meat), at which point they become 'good' Muslims. Or substitute any third-world popular movement at odds with U.S. government plans and goals, such as in Latin America. Or substitute any violent conquest of one group by another; the conquerors have always justified their conquest with this type of moral reasoning.
The idea that "evil" and "good" are valid categories that may be usefully applied to people is dangerous and funamentally inimical to peace. The idea that people can be classified as "good" or "evil" according to whether or not they belong to a certain group is the hallmark of fascism. If this story were intended to poke fun at fascism, one would expect the categories of "good" and "evil" to be problematized or shown to be empty; instead, these categories are an unchanging and unquestioned framework within which the narrative takes place.
This analysis of the Cult of Color narrative is based on a straightforward reading of the text supplied by the ballet. Perhaps a study of Hancock's complete works would support a more complex reading, but this is a review of the ballet and so must take the ballet and its accompanying texts as its only proper basis.
The simplicity you say I am reading into the story is clearly present in the text itself; it is ambiguity which must be read in, because there is none already there.

I am reticent to read so much specificity into the...

2008-04-08T12:24:00.000-05:00

I am reticent to read so much specificity into the narrative. I see the references, but they seem intentionally humorous and ambiguous – suggestions, commentary, or ruminations more than a strict moral lesson bound to this particular piece of the narrative. Though this just might be a result of how i tend to look at "art" in general, and try and understand it. Without the narrative there would be no ballet, as it is the foundation for every movement, set piece, and sound. I wonder how much of the apparent simplicity and "black and white" is a necessity of the ballet form itself.

I understand your points, but i just can't rationalize the story enough to come to the same conclusions. Maybe the bacon is clouding my thought processes :)

Eric Zimmerman on Cult of Color

2008-04-07T16:50:00.000-05:00

Eric Zimmerman on Cult of Color

You'll have to pry the cheese out of my cold dead ...

2008-04-07T00:21:00.000-05:00

You'll have to pry the cheese out of my cold dead hands.

A friend tells me that Trenton Doyle Hancock spent...

2008-04-05T16:06:00.000-06:00

A friend tells me that Trenton Doyle Hancock spent a year eating a vegan diet, as a sort of 'experiment.' I wonder why he did that, and what that means with regard to this conversation.

Right; to my mind, this type of rational, empirica...

2008-04-05T16:03:00.000-06:00

Right; to my mind, this type of rational, empirical argument in favor of vegetarianism is a lot less "black and white" than the 'just because' or 'this is what God/Nature intended' type of reasoning behind committed carnivorism - the former is subject to debate on the level playing field of observation-based argumentation; the latter is an a priori type of argument that precludes further discussion - a "black and white" stance.

The whole meat vs. vegans thing... hmmmm. In this...

2008-04-05T12:20:00.000-06:00

The whole meat vs. vegans thing... hmmmm. In this vegetarian's opinion, a silly silly plot device.

WTF????? Tofu tastes great and lightens your mind, in addition to easing down your "karma," and doing one little part to conserve our planet's shrinking natural resources...

32,900 calories of fossil energy are required to raise one 12-ounce steak (940 calories are in one 12-ounce porterhouse steak).

One pound of meat requires eight times as much energy to produce as one pound of veggie protein such as tofu.

But I never preach at people, I never tell people that stuff... that's just the basis for my own personal decision...

So weird. Weird weird weird.